By Dinesh Wagle
Wagle’s Web Log
So Prime Minister Girija Prasad Koirala wants to give space to monarchy (king Gyanendra). How do you interpret this ‘kindness’? This is a desperate effort by Koirala to inject the pro-monarchy and pro-feudalism and pro-slavery venom in Nepali peoples’ mind at a time when the whole country is preparing to go for the election of constituent assembly. Koirala should be rejected and discarded. A quick reality check: Until a few weeks ago, democratic political parties were completely sidelined by an autocrat king and people supported the movement initiated by the political forces for the shake of democracy. There was no space, not an inch, for the political parties in royal heydays and the mandate of April revolution was clear: No space whatsoever for the king.
Irony is that Koirala is talking about giving space to Maoists. Koirala is not in a position to GIVE Maoists SPACE. Maoists have CREATED space for themselves over the years and the only concern of Nepali people for now is to adjust THAT space with the rest in society. Let me again stress on the point that Koirala has no right to advocate on behalf of monarchy while he is holding the post of Prime Minister of Nepal. Yes, he can do that as the ‘dictator’ president of Nepali Congress but not as the head of the government of Nepal. The free and fair election of Constituent Assembly will decide the fate of ceremonial monarchy in Nepal. The Prime Minister should be neutral on the issue. Koirala should resign for and then advocate for whatever he likes to see.
Some people think that he successfully led the April revolution so that he has the right to say what he said on Sunday. No. Koirala alone didn’t lead the movement. Plus, the circumstances made the movement successful, not the leadership of Koirala. People really wanted to throw away king from power, they came to the streets and king had to go. Koirala had nothing important to say in that development in his personal capacity. So for the best interest of the country, at this age, Koirala should stop speaking nonsense.
(UWB: Wagle, now in Pokhara, will be heading for Annapurna trek for a week. Man, he also needs a break!)
Even king should be given a space in democracy: PM Koirala
KATHMANDU, Aug 6 – Prime Minister Girija Prasad Koirala said Sunday that all the political forces including the king and the Maoist rebels should be given a proper space in a democratic setup.
Stating that the monarch may get desperate and frustrated if he is not given a space in democracy, PM Koirala said, “To achieve a full-fledged democracy in the country, all the forces should be provided with a platform.”
PM Koirala made the remarks while speaking at a tea party organized at his residence in Baluwatar on the occasion of 40th annual general meeting of the Federation of Nepalese Chamber of Commerce (FNCCI) and Industries this evening. Koirala, however, admitted that there have been differences surfaced among the political parties regarding “space provision” for monarch in the country. He added that he has moved forward on the grounds of his “four basic principles.”
“My basic principles are: End of autocratic rule, peace and stability in the country, establishment of full-fledged democracy, and independent, sovereign and prosperous Nepal. I will not get deviated from these principles.” He also said that being a prime minister, he holds the responsibility of bringing even the “non-democratic forces” within a democratic constitutional framework.
“I am trying to accomplish my duty. Even if I fail to complete my duty, the mission won’t. It would be a failure of an individual — G.P. Koirala. But if I succeed, a message will go to the international community and terrorists all over the world setting an example that a peaceful solution can be achieved through cordial talks.” ekantipur
Dr Bhattarai cautions of another struggle if peace talks breached
KATHMANDU, Aug 7 – Maoist leader Dr Baburam Bhattarai said on Monday that Prime Minister Girija P Koirala’s comments a day earlier on giving space to king would invite some hindrances to the ongoing peace talks.
Dr Bhattrai said so before the bigwigs of Nepal’s commerce and industrial fraternity who were gathered here in the capital on the occasion of 40th annual general meeting (AGM) of Federation of Nepalese Chambers of Commerce and Industry (FNCCI).
Prime Minister Koirala had, on Sunday, made his opinion public regarding the monarch saying that even he should be given a space in democracy.
Giving a gesture of warning of third people’s movement in the country, Dr Bhattarai said that if the government and the parties kept on humming the one-sided monotonous tune of “weapon lay-down” by the Maoists without even trying to enter into the preliminaries of peace talks, it is inevitable that the peace process would take a backseat.
“All of you present here (industrialists and businessmen) have wished for a lasting peace in the country. My statements don’t mean that if the peace talks don’t succeed, the country would again head towards the war. You don’t need to tame any kind of confusions here,” he explained adding, “Our chairman Prachanda too has pledged time and again that we would not go back to jungle again. Even if we have to carry on our struggle, we will do that here in the capital and cities. We will struggle peacefully.”
Maoist supremo Prachanda was earlier scheduled to address the second and concluding day of FNCCI’s AGM but instead of him, number two in the Maoists’ “chain-of-command”, Dr Baburam Bhattarai addressed the meeting.
Dr Bhattrai said, “If they (government and the parties) breach the peace talks, if they stick to the old notion of preserving “royal army” and king, we would detach ourselves from the peace talks and continue our struggle right here in the city but peacefully.”
Cautioning another big movement if things didn’t go as per the accords, Dr Bhattrai said, “We would form another “front” — “republican front” — comprising people of Nepal that would bring another enormous change which would not only sweep monarchy but also all forces who support monarchy.”
Reiterating that there would not be another conflict again, he also made clear that it should not spread the message that the Maoists have lost their will and power. “We are not tired, we have not lost,” said Bhattrai adding, “People of Nepal (from rural areas) have already sacrificed for the betterment of the country. Now it’s your turn (people from urban and city areas, including capital) to show the same spirit to bring a massive and positive change in the country.” ekantipurblockquote>
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Comments
299 responses to “Space For Monarchy: Shut Up Mr. Koirala”
scoop, we are on the same page. They have such genuine grievances it is tragic that they took up arms-that’s why they are almost terrorists. But then one man’s terrorist is anothers revolutionary. You know that.
Kirat,
One man’s terrorist is another man’s revolutionary, this is the reasonns given for nations not being able to reach a consensus on the term terrorism. However, the 3 definitions I gave you are widely accepted, of course not by the likes of terrorist organisations as they see themselves as revolutionaries (hence not all nations have signed the UN resolution defining the concept, as such nations harbour these terrorists). Although you say we are in the same page, you still use the words “almost terrorist” and still leave room for speculation.
Genuine grievances – I’m sure we all have them including the main poilitical players and especially the common people. It is not these grievances which are an issue or terrorising in nature, but it is the methods used to address them that are.
However, if we can bring a terrorist group into the main stream by them giving up arms and terrorist ways, this would be the best way to resolve issues.
scoop, don’t you think it is rather too easy to call a group ‘terrorist’ and use this label to justify more violence a la George Bush? Should not a long term approach where the real cause of the Maoist rebellion be looked into and the problems be addressed properly? Things are not so black and white. Ofcourse I condemn the violence that the Maoists so easily resort to, to make their point but calling them terrorists and ignoring the reasons that gave rise to the Maoists is like an ostrich sticking it’s neck in the sand.
Kirat,
You can play pass the parcel with the maoists if you want, but like I have stated, their methods are those of terrorists BUT I am willing to accept them into the main stream if they lay down their arms and their terrorising ways.
I don’t think the “ostrich sticking it’s head in the sand” should be thrown my way. I have spelt it out for you as the time for diplomatic words like “almost terrorist” should be shelved.
By the way the reasons that gave rise to the maoists is nothing more than politics and hunger for power. The reasons that the maoist propoganda machine uses is of course all the ills of society, the same propoganda used by all the other parties as well. The difference being the maoists use terrorising methods and guns to enforce their views, while the parties use electoral politics.
The results we have had is
1. The parties have been failures but with all their flaws I still think a democracy is the correct path for this nation. We are still a new democracy and things should improve over time.
2. The maoists and their methods have ended up in the killings of 13000 people, lakhs displaced, economy in a mess, fear, terror, anarchy reigns supreme – and this is when they are not even governing.
Kirat,
If I torture and then kill my neighbour because he has been for decades taking my hard earned money by beating me up am I an “almost murderer”.
no I am not calling you an ostrich scoop. just saying that we should be careful about oversimplifications. By the way the 13000 people killed were not just by Maoists, the police and the army had a big hand in that as well.
do not confuse violence with terror. state always use some sort of violence to enforce law and order which they use as a last resort. govt use diplomacy and other measures to fulfill their goals while terrorist intimidate common people to fulfill it which is indiscriminate, random and merciless.
if you cant see any difference between bush and bin laden and that is most common mistake people usually do.
here is a little analogy for you guys. my neighbor has a Bhote kukur–Tibetan Mastiff they call it. this dog usually terrorize the common pediatricians and his owner has to beat him up so that he dont do it again. i think you guys got what i mean.
Again Kirat,
Why do you keep justifying for the maoists? The 13000 whether killed by the police or maoists is not the point. The point is they would not have been killed if the maoists in the first place did not resort to arms themselves.
????-funny! Like I said it is not so black and white. If it was than this world would be so different wouldn’t it? We wouldn’t have had any revolutions, armed uprisings, world wars. Look at Iraq is it the Americans or the Iraqi extremists to blame for the mess right now? What would the US and France be without their violent revolutions and wars?
Kirat,
Okay given that according to you the maoists are “almost terrorists”.
But say you were to make a choice between are they terrorist or not, which way would you be more inclined? This is just hypothetical of course. Are they terrorists or they not?
Also choose one of the below:
The maoists are:
1. Freedom fighters and liberators
2. Revolutionaries
3. A political party
4. Mild terrorists
6. Medium level terrorists
7. Terrorists
Does this suite your not so black and white world better?
??? would you bracket the Maoists and Al Qaeda together?
Kirat,
Of course not the two are different in many ways. The Al Qaeda are religious fundamentalists, the maoists are political fundamentalists, the Al Qaeda have more money and access to a worldwide terrorist network, the maoists are more cash strapped and are more localised although some would argue that they have their activities linked with Indian maoist groups as well, the Al Qaeda have a worldwide target and a worldwide response while the maoists are localised (for now that is) and have a limited world response, and finally the people who suffer under Al Qaeda attacks are varied while the people who suffer under the maoists attacks are their own people.
But their intentions no matter how different in the effect, scope and extent of destruction and violence is the same – violence and terror to promote their views.
Another similarity is they both have sympathisers and they both unflinchingly believe what they are doing is correct.
Thank heaven’s that most of the world have the common sense to disagree to this argument.
Now, I have answered your question, how about answering mine?
I hesitate to call Maoists terrorists simply because they have not indulged in the rampant acts of wanton violence they could easily have. It’s pretty easy to plant a bomb in a crowded bus or bazaar and kill as many people as possible. As far as I can remember the Maoists only did this once in Chitwan and the apologized for it immediately as a ‘mistake’. Can you see the difference between bombs in a Bombay train and the way the Maoists have acted? Look I am no fan of the Maoists but to put them in the same category as the terrorists we know that are active in the world is an oversimplification.
Would you hesitate to call a rabid dog mad? Their’s are either terrorist tactics or the most bloody form of dacoity. Murderous gangsters or terrorists, take your pick.
Bideshi, that’s the oversimplification I am talking about. George Bush-“You are either with us or you are against us.”
Sorry their Bideshi, I used your name by mistake!
Anyway c’mon the Reds! 2-1 winners over Chelski!
Wow, Kirat how blind you are. You are now in a greatest denial mode because of that you can not even see what the Maoist terrorists has been doing until now. And you become the gullible victim of the Maoist’s disinformation dish out by our corrupt media. Next time people like you probably would admit like the present Iranian President said ” Holocaust never happened”. Are you aware of the fact that more than thirteen thousands innocent Nepalis have been brutally massacred by the Maoist terrorist over the last decade.
According to you, these are not enough evidence for the Maoist to be called as “terrorist”. If killing innocent civilians including women and children, security men, teachers, political party members etc., are not act of terrorism, then I really do not know how we should define “terrorism”. If you see the face of families victimized by the Maoist terrorist those who are recently demonstrating in front gate of Singhadurbar, each of them are carrying the living testimony of the ruthless crime that they received from these Maoist Terrorists. Besides, they had also fully exploited the corrupt political system and indulged in mass murder, kidnapping young girls and boys from schools, extorted money from businesses and single handedly destroyed the physical and financial infrastructure of the country. The Domingo effect of which are enormous and our country are paying right now with a collapsing economy and mass flight of the exited businesses. This has further accelerated the poverty scale sharply. In any other civilized country these criminal behaviors would have resulted death sentences or life imprisonment but, unfortunately, our inept corrupt political system, instead, inviting these mass murderers to share the power in governing the country. It is extremely foolish that some would even consider their exploding of bomb in public transport, which took many innocent lives and would simply wash this heinous crime by uttering “Mistake”. It is becoming very clear that the selfish people like you whose family probably would never was kidnapped or raped under gun point by the Maoist terrorist can play the role of a devil’s advocate. I am telling you today again and even posted few day ago in this forum, two dead men, B R Bhatttrai and Prachand are walking for some time, you know what it mean!
Kirat,
The bombing of the bus in Chitwan is a “mistake”? A mistake my dear pal is when you target one thing and something else is hit. A mistake is not pre planned. A mistake does not splatter childrens guts all over the place after careful and targetted planning. The only mistake buddy is when the govt. had these lunatic murderers surrounded and did nothing. The other mistake is people like you who still beat around the bush and still have even slightly romantic ideas of these scoundrels.
“The only thing required for evil to triumph, is for good people to do nothing” – this is the mistake being committed today.
Kirat,
Mistake? How would you like a mistake to blow up your sons and pregnant wife?
To defend atrocities of Maoist is worst then a Maoist. Simply, those who do so speak without the ryhme or reason, a false sense of righteousness that borders on insane. Post #268- is right, unless we “good people” take action, people who defend the “evil design” will run amuck with their convulated notion of state, life, liberty and idealogy.
This volcano we are sitting on will explode soon enough for us to regret out inaction. Lets put stop to “defender of evil.”
I think the maoists are worse than the alqaeda because they are fighting a war they cannot win peacefully but maoists are fighting a war they certainly can win peacefully.
PS. please visit savenepalnow.org. THis is a much better and balanced website for all bloggers
k ho kirat dai ta ali grown up vayecha ni…
I agree with dinesh wagle 100%.
Girija has no right to blurt out stupid date expired notions.
he is after all pm of this government restored by the andolan for republic nepal.
i felt so funny by the way he said ” sana party lai thau dina parcha, maobadi lai thau dina parcha ra rajalai pani thau dina parcha.” as if he is the saviour one to give space to everybody.
but i am not to blame girija 100% for his stupidity.
as long as we have a corrupted monarchy and a langado democracy , such girijas will always be there at the top to defend monarchy and weaken democracy.
Taaya what do you mean by corrupt monarchy and langado democracy? In NEpal everyone is corrupt and all institutions are langado.
“Can you see the difference between bombs in a Bombay train and the way the Maoists have acted?”
I’m sorry but no. Infact I take that back – I’m not sorry and NO. The Bombay train and the bus bombing are the same sort of heinous and unforgivable murders. The fact they said it was a mistake makes it sound patronising especially as the people who are responsible have not been punished including the party leadership who are as much responsible as the people who carried out the event (think Bin Laden), and the fact that the rogue directly in charge of the area and operation at the time is still in charge of the area today and has not been taken care of as they had promised and lied as expected, makes it certain that they are just being patronising and are not sorry at all. The bloody murderers.
Bombay blasts? What do you know of the people who carried that out? At least these Bombay Blast murderers have some shame not to say “It was a mistake” when they do not mean it.
I’m sorry guys but if you cannot see the difference between the terrorists who blew up the Bombay trains, the Madrid trains and the Twin Towers and our own home grown Maobadi’s then I have very little reason to continue this conversation. I condemn all Maoist acts of violence but to put them in the same bracket as Al Qaeda?
Kirat,
I think you must know that even Al Qaeda have demands. Political demands like the palestanian issue or the issue of US army in Saudi Arabia and these issues are not religious either. They do not go around bombing whatever they feel like. They are not insane. Al Qaeda has no option but to use violence to fight for what they believe in (right or wrong)as there are no means of peaceful demonstrations at all (as they would be insignificant). But would you not agree that the Maoists choose violence over peaceful movement?
For a CEO Kirat seems to have a whole lot of time in his hands as he seems to be one of the stalwarts of this blog bombarding posts right, left and centre.
Kirat is exactly the sort of person that is now a part of the Maoist Propaganda Machinery….someone who speaks their language but with some finesse, nuance and savoir-faire.
Sorry Kirat,
But all you’ve been able to provide is question marks and questions and no concrete answers. If you’re not so sure yourself, how can you even attempt to sound so sure? I’m afraid that we know the maoists, and I am sure people like you if you were to be in Kashmir and get to know the Kashmiri terrorists or were Kashmiri yourself, you would be calling them freedom fighters as well or atleast “almost terrorists” or you would say “oh you cannot put them in the same bracket as Al Qaeda”- the same people who bombed the Bombay trains. Maybe you are prejudiced against your own simple people. If you kill people from powerful and wealthy nations and cities they are terrorists to you, but if you slaughter poor villagers then these murderers are “somewhat, slightly, almost whatever you call it – different”.
You are a case of familiarity breeding contempt. Or maybe our media is not as effective in influencing people like you as the international media are to convince you otherwise.
If you insist on playing smug, then I’m afraid the Kashmiri separatists, the ETA in Spain and even perhaps the Al Qaeda have strong arguments (their methods of course is the same albeit in different scales (but tell that to the people in our villages) as the maoists of terror and violence).
Perhaps you have got into an argument you did not intend to and continue for the sake of your own pride, but I request you to just stop with your cluelessness in memory of the victims of this atrocious political fanatism.
tt, it is a well known fact that the police and the (R)NA committed as many violent human abuses as the Maoists, ask any villager (if you know any). Would you not call them state sponsored terrorists then, going by your same definition?
B, you sort of got nearer to my point with your ‘peaceful demonstrations having little significance’ comment.
yatri-if only you knew! If I really am a CEO of a big successful company and can yet post so many comments on this blog then surely I must be a genius and not a Maoists!
Looks like pseudo intellectual Kirat shot himself in the wrong foot…its true that ”kaag badi bhato huda goo khancha”
Kirat, lemme pump a bullet in your head, burn your house down, and I’ll apologize for my ‘mistake’ and absolve me of any crime…You are a disgrace…
Kirat,
I think it was you who time and again used to criticise people when discussing the RNA for bringing up the maoists and their nonsense by asking them not to deviate from the topic. I find it really odd that you resume the same methods which you so deplored.
Nevertheless as not only myself but many here have been trying to get it into you, that all this would not have come to pass if the maoists did not take up arms in the first place.
And by the way, when we talk about state sponsored terrorists it refers to states using terrorists to terrrorise other states and does not apply to the state using its security forces to maintain law and order and fight terrorism within the country. When state security sometimes use unorthodox methods or tactics not approved by the Geneva convention then it is an issue of human rights abuses not terrorism.
This shows your utter misunderstanding of the definitions of terorism and your total lack of understanding of the issues, which involves the methods used by maoists to make their point.
Sorry I even bothered. Like I said comparing terrorist movements like Al Qaeda and our own Nepali Maoists and coming to the conclusion that they are the same is only for people like you! Really this place needs people with some brains.
Further Kirat,
I find it ridiculous that you would label maoists “almost terrorrists” and then go on to suggest that the state security are infact “state sponsored terrorists” (although you misunderstood the meaning of this term completely). I think it will suffice to say that you probably do not think the maoists are even “almost terrorists” but “revolutionaries” and “freedom fighters”, it just does not come out of your mouth as supporting them outright probably goes against your personal battles with your ethics.
But to make things easier for confused souls let me stress that nobody argues about some of the issues raised by the maoists, it is their methods that are plain wrong and I find it stumping to see people like you giving them the “almost clean chit of health” with regard to these very methods.
And to end, I must add that you sound exactly like the nuts Prachanda and Baburam when you keep diverting the issues and call our security forces who were dragged into this conflict by these murderers “state sponsored terrorists”, no matter the concept being misused. It might be easy for many in this blog to believe some of the commentators here implying that you may be one of them with candy coating since you spit out the same venom as the murderous duo. I however am willing to give you the benefit of doubt.
Kirat,
Now it’s a loving “our own Nepali maoists” huh?
To many muslims it could also be “our own muslim Al Qaeda” or “our own Kashmiri freedom fighters” or “our own ETA separatists”.
Unfortunately, many a times it is “our own” who also do the most damage to “their own” through the use of arms and violence.
tt you are funny. Sorry pal you cannot understand things that are complex. Your mind just wants a label for everything like ‘good’ or ‘bad’. Keep things nice and simple huh? Go ahead and call the Maoists terrorists, what do I care?
scoop, I am afraid I am a Nepali and it is sad that the Maoists are Nepali too. So I am correct to say our own homegrown terrorists when referring to them as a Nepali without inferring that I support them, n’est ce pas?
Kirat,
Now it’s “our own home grown TERRORRISTS”. It’s really pointless carrying on with a clueless chap like you. Comprende?
Kirat,
Refer to scoop above,
Slip of the tongue or still battling with your inner demons? C’est comme ca n’est ce pas?
je ne sais quoi! Freudian slip.
No matter what people say- Monarchy with residual power is a necessity. I careless what these pseudo intellect such as Wagle speak or write. One jaunt to west and they feel they are qualified to speak about liberal democracy, not the least.
The situation we are in right now is as Gravis (#16) has rightly said is because of people like Wagle. This phenomenon is nothing new- it has happened in South America with disastrous results.
In a hurry to usher in change people here have espoused ideals and processes which they do not even understand in depth. Only they see is fear so they demonize in order to justify their haphazard actions as if it is an achievement in itself. So wrong.
They speak about democracy but not practice them in words or kind, they speak of inequality by creating inequality, and they speak of freedom but more freedom to them. The elitist tendency seen is the crux of the problem. If they think all is for them (booty from the andolan)and only them then why be surprised if others with more money and power try to “create space” for themselves with any means possible be wrong. As for me “creating space” as per Wagle is valid even it means “counter insurgency.”
Kirat,
What can be expected out of u?
U sound like exactly like hopeless Makune, may be a bit more sophisticated, who tries to be ‘politically correct’ everywhere. Like all of those elite dickheads (like Sundermani, Kanakmani, Krishna Pahadi) based in Kathmandu, all u know is to crap day-in and day-out. May be u know too much for ur own good; that’s why u come with ‘pipal paate’ comments, provide twisted logic and irrelevant international examples which appeals to u only and sadly all those smell of opportunism.
Get off your pseudo-intellectualism horse to see colors as they are; not to see black as green or white as red.
We have clearly seen the level of complexity that u understand from u r comments.
Moonflower, tt and scoop. You geniuses! The word rebels, insurgents and armed political uprising just mean ‘terrorists’ too you? Your vocabulary and understanding of the Maoist movement in Nepal is pathetically limited. Like I said I condemn the violence of the Maoists but I refuse to brand them ‘terrorists’ because I know the distinction. You guys understanding complexity? Don’t make me laugh your brains would probably short circuit with the effort!
Kirat,
Instead of wasting our time and sounding confused throughout – I mean for god’s sake what the f%^& is an “almost terrorists” ? – why don’t you find out what terrorists mean, the definitions (3 of them no less) I had provided.
I’m afraid the people you accuse here have stuck 100% to their views, you on the other hand sway from calling them “almost terrorists” (again – what the f@#$ is that?) to “rebels, insurgents and armed political uprising” – I’m afraid if anyone does’nt understand, it is quite simply you. Buddy, the only one providiung comic releief with your swings of thought is you, I’m afraid.
Kirat
you want to make the connection between maoism and terrorism complex and vague. for you the indiscriminate and wanton use of violence is not terrorism, and intimidation and extortion does not make them terrorists. why?
for your grievance and the ‘almost home grown terrorism’ hypothesis, why are there more Bin Laden and Prachanda and less Gandhi and Mandela? what make the same grievance one human Bin Laden and another Mandela. may be its just instant karma or is it jsut composition or ethnicity of people that are subjected to grievance?
As I said before it seems only u can see the difference because u want to be politically correct everywhere. Your understanding is mired with useless complexity that cannot distinguish between black and white, and see other colors. At least I have simplicity of thoughts without some figments of imagination to see things as they are.
May be u can come up with some new political theory and/or new definition of terrorism, home-grown terrorists, international terrorists…
listen all, Kirat is hare-brained. For him “creating space” is this blog site, nothing more. So ignore this shit otherwise he is gonna stink up just like his ilks have done to our beloved Nepal
When asked Kirat if the maoists should be punished for their crimes on another thread, Kirat actually said “Maoists are terrorists, what do you expect of them? whereas Na is a state army and hence should be deciplined”.
I think Kirat is an opportunist who sees the world selectively and defines everything in it to serve his or her (i think this kirat thing is a she or it is Mr. Wagle himself) interest.
I love you so much! Great place to visit!